Martha Olney is a member of the American Economic Association, Business History Conference, Cliometric Society, Committee for the Status of Women in the Economics Profession, Economic History Association, and the Social Science History Association. She currently serves on the board of the AEA's Committee for the Status of Women in the Economics Profession and on the academic advisory board of the Financial Services Research Program of George Washington University.

Interview with Martha Olney

What attracted you to economics as a career and what led to your interest in teaching?

I literally backed into economics. As a sophomore at the University of Redlands, on an excessively hot September day, I stood in a gymnasium ringed with alphabetically-arranged tables registering for fall classes. The English class I wanted was full. So I backed into the middle of the room, and pondered what to do. It was hot. My friends were done and gone. I just needed a class. The Economics table was next to English, and there was no line. I signed up for Economics 101.

What I found delighted me. I was already a math major. Economics combined what I loved about math with concern for the real world. When we got to macroeconomics, everything fell into place. When I graduated from high school in June, 1974, current events were two-hour long lines at gas stations and classmates scuttling their college plans because Dad had been laid off. Economics was about real life.

But I wasn’t going to be a teacher! After all, I had grown up in the day when little girls had three career options: nurse, secretary, or teacher. I don’t do blood, so that ruled out nurse. Everyone said I was “too smart” to be a secretary. That left teacher. Even in elementary school, I was enough of a future-women’s-libber to say “I don’t know what I’m going to be, but I’m not going to be a teacher. You give me only three options. I’m going to find a fourth.”

So I started grad school intent on going into consulting and making big bucks. Two things happened: teaching and economic history. In my second year, I started as a T.A. I was good at it. I enjoyed it. I was energized by what happened in the classroom. And then I was assigned to T.A. economic history. Rational expectations was all the rage in macro. I wanted to focus on instability. I learned that economic history was the route to asking my questions. So much for consulting and big bucks. Teaching and economic history had grabbed onto me and haven’t yet let go.

Who has had the biggest influence on your interest in economics and the development of your career?

Naming just one person is difficult. In terms of my career as an economic historian, probably the members of the All-University of California Group in Economic History have influenced me the most. In teaching, I learned a lot by watching my thesis advisor Richard Sutch, who was an excellent teacher of large-enrollment courses.

But more than anyone else, my high school math teacher, Mr. Bill Medigovich, influenced me the most. Mr. M. was passionate about math, made it fun, was always looking for new ways to present the material, and believed in us sometimes more than we believed in ourselves. If I have half his skill and gifts for inspiring students, I’m doing quite well.

How would you describe your style as a teacher? Are there characteristics that a person has to have in order to be a great teacher?

My style varies depending upon the size and level of the class. In general, I’m organized, approachable, friendly, tough, fair, and clear. I bring lots of energy to the enterprise of teaching. My passion for economics and for learning is right out there. Students tell me I teach life lessons. It’s not something I do consciously. I think it’s a side effect of bringing my whole self to my teaching.

In a large-enrollment course, organization is the key. If everything else fell apart but I was still organized, I’d be content. But if everything else was working yet things were disorganized, I’d be distraught. In a research seminar, I try to direct a conversation that has more student than professor participation. Organization is still important, but not key. The key in that setting is listening well and thinking quickly on my feet, to keep the conversation on topic, and provide the prods that move it in the direction I want to go.

I think to be a great teacher one must start with respect. Respect yourself. Respect your students. To me, it all flows from there. Respect yourself: work in a field that gives you joy. Respect yourself: draw professional and personal boundaries that allow you to be fully-present as Professor Snarfface when you are teaching, and fully-present as Mom when you’re supervising homework while making dinner. Respect your students: know them by name, appreciate their over-scheduled lives, assume they want to learn, connect with them in ways that facilitate their learning.

Are there some concepts that you believe are really important for you to get across to students in introductory classes? What are some of the “tricks” that you use to get key points across?

My goal in Econ 1 is to enable students to be good citizens. I want them to be able to read, understand, and critique the news. So I try to focus on the essentials and not get too hung up on all the “extras” that appear in the textbook. Opportunity cost, trade-offs, supply and demand, elasticity, marginal analysis, unemployment, Fed policy. I teach more, but those are the ones I care about the most.

I jump, I move, I slide, I use my hands to draw graphs in the air. I make them laugh. I use examples from the news or from their lives. I occasionally utter phrases that stick in their head for years: Internalize the externalities. Do not bow to the god of profit-maximization. Major in what you love. Education matters.

What are one or two of your favorite topics that you look forward to covering in your class? Why are they favorites?

Macroeconomic history from about 1960 on is great fun. I emphasize how the development of models is interwoven with the policies the government pursued. Their faces fall when I tell them that, in all likelihood, much of what I’m teaching them now in macro will be obsolete by the time their kids are taking economics in college. It reminds them (and me!) that what we are learning is a way of thinking, and that the specifics are still evolving.

I also like the class where I talk about long-run growth and productivity. Here I emphasize the role of education. I always have a slide that says, simply, “Education Matters!” “What you are doing here is important,” I tell the students. They smile. Me, too.

And I like talking about whatever is the hot issue of that term. In Fall 2005, it was Hurricane Katrina. I must have drawn a dozen or more examples from that event. In Fall 2001, it was September 11. This term, it’s California’s January freeze which destroyed our citrus crop. I enjoy the ability to take one example from the real world and weave it in over and over again.

You have a strong background and interest in economic history. How does that influence your teaching of introductory economics? Should we be doing more to integrate economic history into our basic courses?

Absolutely we should integrate history into our economics courses! Some of the best examples are drawn from history. Want an illustration that an action can be profit-maximizing and morally wrong? Talk about the profitability of the purchase of a slave in the 1850s. How about a fun example of a change in productivity? Hum the ditty from Disney’s Pirates of the Caribbean ride just before launching into an explanation of how defeating piracy lowered the costs of shipping – no cannons on merchant ships anymore, so lighter ships and smaller crews, not to mention lower insurance costs – and thus increased total factor productivity. Bored with the same old examples of comparative advantage? Talk about the gender-based changes in education and in earnings opportunities since 1950 – no more required home ec for girls! – and how the resulting closing of the gap between men’s and women’s comparative advantage in household versus home production has led to the postponement of marriage.

I think it’s no coincidence that so many economic historians are Distinguished Teaching Award recipients for their teaching of introductory courses. We know lots and lots of truly fun examples. Buy a copy of Gary Walton & Hugh Rockoff’s History of the American Economy textbook, and you can have those examples too.

Many economics teachers are looking for activities, games, and interactive exercises that will bring more life to their classes. What are some of the things that you do in this area?

Here I’m behind the curve, decidedly old-school. I say “raise your hand” rather than “use your clicker” if you think the price rises. I do a lot of call and response. I integrate quick 3-to-5-minute interactive exercises into my large-enrollment courses. But I haven’t done much more than that.

How important is homework to the understanding of economics? What types of homework do you assign in your large lecture classes?

Probably because of the type of learner I am, I think putting pen to paper is essential. The best way to force all students to do so is through assigning problem sets. I experimented with Aplia for awhile but am moving away from it. It was very useful for keeping the students up to date on their studying but I felt they became too focused on the nitty-gritty of the tools. I wanted them to be able to tell stories, to apply the tools to their world. So this term I’m back to daily optional exercises, five problem sets, and a supplemental reader of news articles. The problem sets generally ask that students apply a tool to a new situation. For example, what effect does increased use of corn in ethanol production have on the price of corn-based food products? Why are so many wheat farmers switching to corn?

I post everything on my website and archive the last two offerings of the course there as well. It’s open access: http://socs.berkeley.edu/~olney. I know others have used some of my problem sets with attribution because I occasionally receive email from undergrads at other schools: “Our professor assigned your problem set in our class, and I’m having trouble on #2. Could you explain what you meant when you asked . . .” Uh, sorry, no.

Sometimes unexpected things happen in the classroom. What are your two or three most memorable classroom experiences?

One of my favorites that I not-so-secretly hope for each year is that the Cal Marching Band or our mascot Oski will make a surprise appearance in class during Big Game week. I love it! I always wear my blue and gold that week and chide the students who wear Stanford red.

On the embarrassing end of the spectrum is a class from Fall 1993. Just as we were about to distribute the first midterm to 700 mostly first-year, very anxious students, the fire alarm went off, aborting the exam. It took me a moment to realize what had happened. When I did, my head fell and – forgetting that I was miked – I loudly uttered an expletive. My expletive showered down from the ceiling in waves of reverberating sound. If nothing else, it broke the mood! All of their anxiety quickly dissolved into guffaws and laughter.

My most memorable class will no doubt always remain the Intermediate Macro class I taught the afternoon of September 11, 2001. We met at 2 PST that afternoon. Several hundred students showed up. We began by standing for a moment of silence, and then spent the entire 80 minutes talking about what happened, trying to apply some of our economic tools to questions which at that point had no answer. I told the students, “You will always remember where you were today. Remember that we were here, together.” It was a powerful moment.

What are some of the most common misconceptions among the students in your introductory economics classes?

That economics is boring. Or that economics is the route to riches. I dispel them of both. I put a lot of emphasis on doing good – versus doing well -- in the world. And I’m anything but boring!

You have taught both large and small classes. How do these different settings influence your teaching?

I try to integrate active learning into all my classes regardless of size. The large classes do not allow for much professor-student conversation. In a room with 750 people, 3 students engaged in conversation with me leaves out 747 others. But I can put all 750 people into groups of 3 and then they are all engaged.

In a class of 15, we can have one shared conversation. I know everyone can hear. I can draw out the reticent student and hold back the excessively exuberant one.

In small classes, I dress less formally. I sit in the circle rather than stand at the front of the room. My language is less formal and very unrehearsed. My body language doesn’t fill the room.

At the University of California you work with grauduate students, many of whom will be teaching economics in the near future. Do you provide them with training that will help them develop as a teacher?

All first-time teaching assistants at Berkeley are required by the Graduate Division to enroll in a semester-long pedagogy course. I often teach the Economics Department’s offering. I cover lots of topics, including miscellaneous tips, models of intellectual development, dealing with grade disputes, participation styles, writing exams and problem sets. The teaching assistants really like the first part of each meeting: “check-in.” They can share anything good or bad from the previous week and solicit advice and feedback. I think it gives them an appreciation for the value of talking about teaching with your colleagues while affirming that their instincts are generally pretty good.

How have changes in technology influenced your teaching? How do you use various technological tools in your introductory large lecture classes at UC--Berkeley?

I put a lot of materials on my course website rather than distribute them in class. I post my outline on the web for students to download and bring to class. They have to fill in lots of it during class, so the posted outline isn’t a full substitute for attendance. I use email for all announcements to the students. I will answer short questions by email but ask those with long questions to come to office hours. I have begun using a tablet PC and PowerPoint, and am pleased with how the tablet combines the clarity of PowerPoint with the flexibility of transparencies. But for my intermediate macro course (enrollment: 450) I still use chalk!

Because we can’t turn off the wireless in our classrooms and open laptops surfing the web and watching you-tube were distracting to concentric circles of a few dozen students, I’ve banned laptops in my large-enrollment courses.

Do you think economic education has improved in recent years?

Yes, I do. So far efforts seem to be scattered, but I’m pleased with what I see. Publishers are offering weekend-long workshops on pedagogy. Institutes such as the Stavros Center or Foundation for Teaching Economics are receiving generous endowments. Institutions such as Berkeley are requiring pedagogy seminars of grad students. Our professional conferences are including sessions on teaching. Anyone who wants creative exercises can find more than they want with a quick Google search. I believe the more we talk with each other about teaching, the better we each become. I don’t think it’s about the technology. I think it’s about the conversations.

What do you consider to be your greatest success in the area of economic education?

A student once wrote, “Professor Olney, don’t take this the wrong way but you’re not really a professor. You’re a coach – a really good coach. You make us better than we think we can be. Thank you.” That pretty much sums it up.

What advice would you give a young person with a strong desire to become a great teacher?

Teach that about which you are passionate. If you don’t think economics is the grooviest topic in the world, find what is and teach that. Be yourself. Experiment until you find your style. Rejoice in your good days and forgive yourself your bad ones. Respect yourself. Respect your students. Respect the process. There is great joy in the mystery that is teaching.